Isn't liminality in many ways novelty? As I see it, there is a tension between order and novelty. Order without novelty becomes stagnant, unadaptive, and dead. On the other hand, too much novelty disrupts the system and may even lead to its destruction.
This is not just a social-cultural tension, but something that characterizes all systems from a cell to an ecosystem. Cell/ecosystem have an order or structure that they sustain, but when faced with too much novelty and change (high temperatures/too many new species) the order breaks.
Agreed. Liminality is to my mind the injection of novelty into the system via a carefully controlled container. Too much is a serious danger — or so Turner said of the tribal feeling about it.
Great post, thank you for this. Very well written and great concepts discussed; liminality is endlessly fascinating to me and I have much more to learn on the topic (I discussed it with respect to the midlife crisis here: https://neofeudalreview.substack.com/p/the-midlife-transition-confronting ). I'm going to look into the writings of some of the figures you discussed here...
You mention Nietzsche and his quote about the dangers and possibilities opened up by the death of God. May I one-up you with this quote by Cioran (who was inspired by Nietzsche)?
"Is there a pleasure more subtly ambiguous than to watch the ruin of a myth? What dilapidation of hearts in order to beget it, what excesses of intolerance in order to make it respected, what terror for those who do not assent to it, and what expense of hopes for those who watch it . . . expire! Intelligence flourishes only in the ages when beliefs wither, when their articles and their precepts slacken, when their rules collapse. Every period’s ending is the mind’s paradise, for the mind regains its play and its whims only within an organism in utter dissolution. The man who has the misfortune to belong to a period of creation and fecundity suffers its limitations and its ruts; slave of a unilateral vision, he is enclosed within a limited horizon. The most fertile moments in history were at the same time the most airless; they prevailed like a fatality, a blessing for the naive mind, mortal to an amateur of intellectual space. Freedom has scope only among the disabused and sterile epigones, among the intellects of belated epochs, epochs whose style is coming apart and is no longer inspired except by a certain ironic indulgence.
To belong to a church uncertain of its god—after once imposing that god by fire and sword—should be the ideal of every detached mind. When a myth languishes and turns diaphanous, and the institution which sustains it turns clement and tolerant, problems acquire a pleasant elasticity. The weak point of a faith, the diminished degree of its vigor set up a tender void in men’s souls and render them receptive, though without permitting them to be blind, yet, to the superstitions which lie in wait for the future they darken already. The mind is soothed only by those agonies of history which precede the insanity of every dawn."
From my understanding of liminality, couldn’t one consider living itself a liminal experience? There is no permanent structure to living, it varies from individuals, it is a constant process of growing, changes and transitions. Could we say that life is the transition from birth to death? What i mean is whatever state it is that precede birth could be considered a structure, life is the transition from that structure to the next one, death. Death is unchanging and the state preceding birth is the same, living is the only part that is constantly changing and that allows transitions. I hope my question was clear and understandable, this was an interesting and instructive read.
"It's the Jim and Pam in every office ... " 😂👌 (These articles are fantastic, thanks for the welcome letter!)
I'd forgotten about that line Cheryl. Always good to be reminded of some whimsy 😆
I'm right on the cusp of coming up with a definition.
You got this just stop being a goddamn hippie and give it some Structure
Isn't liminality in many ways novelty? As I see it, there is a tension between order and novelty. Order without novelty becomes stagnant, unadaptive, and dead. On the other hand, too much novelty disrupts the system and may even lead to its destruction.
This is not just a social-cultural tension, but something that characterizes all systems from a cell to an ecosystem. Cell/ecosystem have an order or structure that they sustain, but when faced with too much novelty and change (high temperatures/too many new species) the order breaks.
Agreed. Liminality is to my mind the injection of novelty into the system via a carefully controlled container. Too much is a serious danger — or so Turner said of the tribal feeling about it.
Great post, thank you for this. Very well written and great concepts discussed; liminality is endlessly fascinating to me and I have much more to learn on the topic (I discussed it with respect to the midlife crisis here: https://neofeudalreview.substack.com/p/the-midlife-transition-confronting ). I'm going to look into the writings of some of the figures you discussed here...
You mention Nietzsche and his quote about the dangers and possibilities opened up by the death of God. May I one-up you with this quote by Cioran (who was inspired by Nietzsche)?
"Is there a pleasure more subtly ambiguous than to watch the ruin of a myth? What dilapidation of hearts in order to beget it, what excesses of intolerance in order to make it respected, what terror for those who do not assent to it, and what expense of hopes for those who watch it . . . expire! Intelligence flourishes only in the ages when beliefs wither, when their articles and their precepts slacken, when their rules collapse. Every period’s ending is the mind’s paradise, for the mind regains its play and its whims only within an organism in utter dissolution. The man who has the misfortune to belong to a period of creation and fecundity suffers its limitations and its ruts; slave of a unilateral vision, he is enclosed within a limited horizon. The most fertile moments in history were at the same time the most airless; they prevailed like a fatality, a blessing for the naive mind, mortal to an amateur of intellectual space. Freedom has scope only among the disabused and sterile epigones, among the intellects of belated epochs, epochs whose style is coming apart and is no longer inspired except by a certain ironic indulgence.
To belong to a church uncertain of its god—after once imposing that god by fire and sword—should be the ideal of every detached mind. When a myth languishes and turns diaphanous, and the institution which sustains it turns clement and tolerant, problems acquire a pleasant elasticity. The weak point of a faith, the diminished degree of its vigor set up a tender void in men’s souls and render them receptive, though without permitting them to be blind, yet, to the superstitions which lie in wait for the future they darken already. The mind is soothed only by those agonies of history which precede the insanity of every dawn."
From: https://neofeudalreview.substack.com/p/a-philosophy-of-decay-emil-cioran
From my understanding of liminality, couldn’t one consider living itself a liminal experience? There is no permanent structure to living, it varies from individuals, it is a constant process of growing, changes and transitions. Could we say that life is the transition from birth to death? What i mean is whatever state it is that precede birth could be considered a structure, life is the transition from that structure to the next one, death. Death is unchanging and the state preceding birth is the same, living is the only part that is constantly changing and that allows transitions. I hope my question was clear and understandable, this was an interesting and instructive read.